cssedit forum
Posted: 27 May 2009 05:26 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Am I correct there is no cssedit forum, or category? Have some feedback for the team on cssedit.
BTW I can really recommend symphony21 with the new forum extension to replace EE, its got that macrabbit/things zen-vibe…and xslt

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Posted: 27 May 2009 06:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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As far as I know, CSSEdit hasn’t been updated since the fall of 2007. So I’m not sure that it’s actively being updated /maintained at this time. Then again as Espresso doesn’t include CSSEdit’s features and MacRabbit implies that the two programs should work together so it’s entirely possible the product isn’t dead and MacRabbit is just too busy to update it. Either way MacRabbit doesn’t typically participate here in the forums so I’m not sure that a CSSEdit category would be all that productive. Really your best bet is to send them an email. They most likely won’t respond to that either but the prevailing wisdom here is that they do actually read the email messages even though they don’t respond to them.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I’m picking up on this older discussion thread, which I hope is okay.

If I’ve understood the previous post correctly, ccedit and espresso are supposed to work together, but don’t. Is that the case? If that’s right, it seems really odd that the two aren’t integrated; I like cssedit and I don’t want to give up features. In Espresso the css tools seem pretty outdated — compared to css.

I was hoping for an intgrated html editor that would hook onto cssedit, and if that’s not possible, I’m not sure what advantage I’d get from Espresso. I can continue using bbedit for the html page and cssedit for the css. It means having to shuffle windows, but that’s what I’m used to.

Please tell me I’m wrong, and there is a way to do this.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Espresso and CSSEdit work together like CSSEdit and any other quality text editor, but not any better as yet. Yes I know they say Espresso is supposed to be the ‘one stop shop’ for web development, but don’t start me on their marketing vs their delivery! ;)

I personally think what they see is that a MacRabbit customer can actually do this already, so they are concentrating on facilities in Espresso that aren’t in CSSEdit before they duplicate the higher end features of CSSEdit in Espresso, and as an owner of both, I do think that approach has merit. I’d rather they had sorted the image preview (now including size display) than added a feature to Espresso I already have in CSSEdit. Maybe others won’t agree, but I’m with MacRabbit on this for now. Something like having a live preview while editing HTML would be far more productive than duplicating CSSEdit’s CSS X-Ray.

with best regards,
Karn.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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WebKarnage - 06 February 2010 10:44 AM
Something like having a live preview while editing HTML would be far more productive than duplicating CSSEdit’s CSS X-Ray.

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly on this. One more question, then:

How is Espresso better than Bbedit? Is there a comparison chart somewhere? I’d have to see some really outstanding advantages before spending that much money on software that duplicates what I already have.

Thanks again, WebKarnage

(interesting screen name you’ve got there)

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Posted: 06 February 2010 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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greenery - 06 February 2010 09:58 AM
If I’ve understood the previous post correctly, ccedit and espresso are supposed to work together, but don’t. Is that the case? If that’s right, it seems really odd that the two aren’t integrated; I like cssedit and I don’t want to give up features. In Espresso the css tools seem pretty outdated — compared to css

As WebKarnage essentially pointed out, CSSEdit and Espresso are just as integrated as your current solution of BBEdit and CSSEdit, which is to say they’re not integrated at all. So really the debate boils down to, is Espresso any better in your workflow than BBEdit? Speaking for myself, I find that Espresso 1.1 + CSSEdit meets my needs better than my old solution of Coda and CSSEdit. At least in Espresso I can hand-code the CSS and see the changes live.

What I miss most from CSSEdit is the X-Ray functionality and the Inspector, but I have hope that both of these features will find their into Espresso someday (along with a way for the project window to remember its settings and dimensions; seriously now, this need to be fixed), and then Espresso will have delivered exactly what I was hoping for way back when it was first launched: an all-in-one solution for web development.

My advice then is to try Espresso head to head with BBEdit, keeping CSSEdit in your workflow, and just see which one meets your needs better. That’s not exactly insightful, but considering there’s no integration here in MacRabbitland it’s probably the best advice anyone could give.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Thanks, Joey. I’ll do a side-by-side.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 06:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Hey Greenery,

I use both Espresso and BBEdit (Espresso for everything but Python, and BBEdit for Python and sometimes Markdown files that cause Espresso’s syntax engine to crash). Comparing the two programs is kind of apples and oranges, since they approach text editing from two very different directions:

BBEdit is a very fully-featured text editor with a long legacy, which means that it is much more complicated to learn and use but also has a slough of useful features. It has, however, almost completely failed to integrate some of the Textmate editing features that form the core of Espresso. BBEdit’s auto-completion and available text editing actions feel very old school to me; I rarely use anything beyond its “words in the same document” completion (which is incidentally something Espresso lacks). The reason I use BBEdit for Python is twofold:

1) BBEdit can display invisible characters and Espresso can’t (if you haven’t use it before, whitespace in Python isn’t just for visual appeal so it’s important to know whether there’s spaces or tabs there, for example)

2) BBEdit has a number of things built in that make editing a scripting language like Python easier, like the ability to run a script immediately via a menu item and have any errors captured captured and formatted in a nice-looking window (this could be added to Espresso using a Sugar action, but I haven’t taken the trouble)

The reason I use Espresso for absolutely everything else is also twofold:

1) Espresso’s basic text editing is derivative of Textmate’s, which is a vast improvement over BBEdit’s in my opinion. This means that coding in Espresso feels right to me, while coding in BBEdit is often counter-intuitive (how do I use zen coding? Aargh!)

2) Espresso is visually simpler and more attractive and far easier to extend, whether by adding custom text snippets, custom actions, or a custom theme

If you buy BBEdit, you will probably be able to do almost anything you’d want to in a text editor, but for the things that you can also do in Espresso BBEdit will be more complicated, less visually appealing, and harder to find the features in the first place. On the other hand, the editor is solid as a rock (though Espresso rarely crashes on me any more, I have occasionally come across files that kill its syntax engine, particularly if they embed a language within another language).

If you buy Espresso, you might sometimes find yourself wishing for a feature that BBEdit provides out of the box. However, Espresso is easy to extend (if you think Espresso Sugars need documentation, try creating a new language definition for BBEdit), and for the features that it does provide it is far more cohesive and well-designed than BBEdit.

As Joey suggested, the only way you’ll really know which is right for you is to try them both, but hopefully this will give you something to think about while you do so. :-)

Also, a final note: for a long while Espresso had no integration with CSSEdit, but as of 1.1 or so you can right click a file and choose “Edit in CSSEdit”, which is really handy. I do this pretty much daily; CSSEdit for the heavy CSS lifting, and Espresso for editing other files, uploading to the server, etc.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Ian Beck - 06 February 2010 06:37 PM
Hey Greenery, … Also, a final note: for a long while Espresso had no integration with CSSEdit, but as of 1.1 or so you can right click a file and choose “Edit in CSSEdit”, which is really handy. I do this pretty much daily; CSSEdit for the heavy CSS lifting, and Espresso for editing other files, uploading to the server, etc.

Ian — now this, I didn’t know. This may be the feature that makes Espresso work for me. Thanks!

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Posted: 06 February 2010 06:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Ian Beck - 06 February 2010 06:37 PM
Also, a final note: for a long while Espresso had no integration with CSSEdit, but as of 1.1 or so you can right click a file and choose “Edit in CSSEdit”, which is really handy.

That’s a very good point, though I should mention that there is no way to set your default editors from within Espresso. As best I can tell it uses the system default “open with” which tends to give very funky results if say, for example, Espresso is already the default editor for that file type. In my case, Espresso attempts to open CSS files with Nisus Writer, of all things.

Of course you can always override this by manually making a selection from the sub menu. But that impairs the benefit of this feature considerably, in my opinion.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 08:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I’m glad Ian’s come in on this, as I tried BBEdit and felt that I needed to know the thing really well before I was going to get anywhere with it, so left it well alone. I’d always before used TacoHTML as a preference to BBEdit.

I love Espresso myself for the simple way to navigate around my project and use Quick Publish, the wrap and autocomplete always do what I expect, and like Joey I still do more than half of my CSS work in Espresso watching the results as I go. The way the project wide search works I really like too, and this saves a lot of time, allowing me to either replace every occurrence of something or on a file by file basis.

with best regards,
Karn.

PS. I probably ought to have another look at the full publishing setup at some point, but it wasn’t slick with all my hosting a few updates ago.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Joey — You can go directly to cssedit, I just figured out, if you hold down CTRL when you click on style.css (or whatever) in the list of files on the main project window. Works like a charm.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 11:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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greenery - 06 February 2010 10:01 PM
Joey — You can go directly to cssedit, I just figured out, if you hold down CTRL when you click on style.css (or whatever) in the list of files on the main project window. Works like a charm.

Well, it works as long as CSSEdit is the default editor for CSS files. What I was saying is that if you set Espresso as your default editor for CSS files, for some reason the contextual (CTRL) menu goes crazy and starts suggesting some awfully unusual editors. In fact, at least on my setup, this is true of any file where Espresso is set as the default editor. A CTRL click on PHP files suggests Excel, HTML files suggest Evernote, etc.

Generally this isn’t a big deal since I’m rarely going to open a PHP file in another editor from within Espresso. However I do open CSS files quite a lot in CSSEdit. So unless I set CSSEdit as my default editor for all CSS files, the “open with” feature doesn’t really work.

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Posted: 11 February 2010 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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From my point of view there is very poor interaction between CSSEDIT and ESPRESSO…I suppose they should thing about some fusion and integrate all the function of CSSEDIT into ESPRESSO…they could preserve CSSEDIT for people who have another favorite code editor but would like to have some sleek editor for css.

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